Should PSU get the Death Penalty?

[Bull94]

I disagree that you're punishing innocent people. A university does not have to have football to do its job - education ... which, frankly, you've pointed out time and again that you'd rather see more dollars flow into education and educators, not athletics. Here is Penn State's chance to get back to what really matters.

I'm all for the players being able to transfer to other schools with no penalty. They can play right away.

Other than that, who are you punishing? Sometimes you need to have something taken away from you to teach you what really matters. The NCAA has a clear opportunity here to make an example of PSU.

I don't disagree with you on your other examples, but those aren't the same as this issue here. This is an entire institution that was controlled by the grips of men so powerful and so corrupt, that even the janitors were afraid to come forward about the abused kids. Only reason I want the NCAA to get involved at all is because it was an athletic department that was pulling all of the strings. Even now the Paterno family still enjoys support in Happy Valley, although admittedly not as much as it used to, but the fact that they haven't run that family out of town and taken down that statue speaks volumes as to how systemic this issue is there. The death penalty will help get that culture out of State College better than punishment for individuals alone.

you're punishing the innocent alumni.

I agree athletic departments have far too much control over colleges. I also agree that a huge percentage of the money they generate should go towards the general welfare of the school.

like I said that culture prevails everywhere. not just in happy valley.

like your bolded statement suggests, it was those powerful men who were in the wrong and they controlled the institution.

they should be put in jail. they should have civil actions taken against them. they should be ruined for their choices.

putting corrupt CEOs in jail will deter future CEOs from cheating.

fining their companies and letting them walk away with millions does nothing to stop it from happening again.

[Bull94]

You need to change the culture of an institution, not just the behaviour of an individual.

While a member of an institution, it's amazing just how malleable an individual's behaviour becomes.

Even in a mock experiment, people do things they wouldn't otherwise do.

http://en.wikipedia....ison_experiment

The culture at PSU has to change. Will the death penalty do that? Probably. Will anything less? Probably not.

Bring on Sparky!!

that culture is prevalent in college athletics. not just at penn state

coaches, presidents, athletic directors, will continue to cheat and cover-up as long as they are not held personally accountable.

they walk away from an institution with millions while the innocent that are left behind suffer the consequences. ask pete carrol. ask Calapari. ask Tressel. ask the coach from UofL who brought in their huge recruiting class after he was implicated in the miami cheating scandal. dude got a raise and a better job because of his cheating. miami will go on probation.etc etc etc

[GaUSFBull]

you're punishing the innocent alumni.

How? No football? Did it say on their diploma that being a graduate entitled them to Nittany Lions football for the rest of their days? Any alumni that considers it punishment probably needs the death penalty to happen to their team. I would hope most alumni are disgusted by this and would understand if the death penalty happened.

like I said that culture prevails everywhere. not just in happy valley.

Do you have any evidence that it's worse anywhere else? I don't. Perhaps a drastic move such as the death penalty will affect a culture change in other places where it's needed.

like your bolded statement suggests, it was those powerful men who were in the wrong and they controlled the institution.

they should be put in jail. they should have civil actions taken against them. they should be ruined for their choices.

Those powerful men are either dead or going to prison, and will have civil actions taken against them. They are ruined. The culture remains.

putting corrupt CEOs in jail will deter future CEOs from cheating.

fining their companies and letting them walk away with millions does nothing to stop it from happening again.

Still not a valid comparison, as a corporate fine is not tantamount to the death penalty in football, but you continue to miss the point that it's a culture issue. And yes, it is in college athletics, but where do you begin to try to affect change in the landscape? By making a drastic move.

[Reliable Source]

So much for the NCAA doesn't have jurisdiction.

NCAA boss won't rule out death penalty for Penn St

The Associated Press – 3 hours ago

NEW YORK (AP) -- The president of the NCAA says he isn't ruling out the possibility of shutting down the Penn State football program in the wake of the Jerry Sandusky child sex abuse scandal.

In a PBS interview Monday night, NCAA President Mark Emmert said he doesn't want to ''take anything off the table'' if the NCAA determines penalties against Penn State are warranted.

Emmert said he's ''never seen anything as egregious as this in terms of just overall conduct and behavior inside a university.'' He added, ''What the appropriate penalties are, if there are determinations of violations, we'll have to decide.''

The last time the NCAA shut down a football program with the so-called ''death penalty'' was in the 1980s, when SMU was forced to drop the sport because of extra benefits violations. After the NCAA suspended the SMU program for a year, the school decided not to play in 1988, either, as it tried to regroup.

''This is completely different than an impermissible benefits scandal like (what) happened at SMU, or anything else we've dealt with. This is as systemic a cultural problem as it is a football problem. There have been people that said this wasn't a football scandal,'' Emmert said.

''Well, it was more than a football scandal, much more than a football scandal. It was that but much more. And we'll have to figure out exactly what the right penalties are. I don't know that past precedent makes particularly good sense in this case, because it's really an unprecedented problem.''

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaa-boss-wont-rule-death-133107995--ncaaf.html

[ZeroBullChip]

They should be done.

[Bull94]

you're punishing the innocent alumni.

How? No football? Did it say on their diploma that being a graduate entitled them to Nittany Lions football for the rest of their days? Any alumni that considers it punishment probably needs the death penalty to happen to their team. I would hope most alumni are disgusted by this and would understand if the death penalty happened.

like I said that culture prevails everywhere. not just in happy valley.

Do you have any evidence that it's worse anywhere else? I don't. Perhaps a drastic move such as the death penalty will affect a culture change in other places where it's needed.

like your bolded statement suggests, it was those powerful men who were in the wrong and they controlled the institution.

they should be put in jail. they should have civil actions taken against them. they should be ruined for their choices.

Those powerful men are either dead or going to prison, and will have civil actions taken against them. They are ruined. The culture remains.

putting corrupt CEOs in jail will deter future CEOs from cheating.

fining their companies and letting them walk away with millions does nothing to stop it from happening again.

Still not a valid comparison, as a corporate fine is not tantamount to the death penalty in football, but you continue to miss the point that it's a culture issue. And yes, it is in college athletics, but where do you begin to try to affect change in the landscape? By making a drastic move.

so you wouldn't have a problem if say some rogue coach did something to get USF football the death penalty?

If you don't think cheating and cover-ups are not prevalent at other football factories then you are naive.

you're right a corporate fine is not the same. shutting down the company would be the equivalent of the death penalty. that's even harsher and still not likely to be a deterrent.

as long as the people perpetrating these crimes go unpunished, they will continue to cheat and cover-up when they have a financial incentive to do so. coaches, ADs, and presidents walk away with millions and then we decide to punish those left behind. there is very little risk and a huge reward for cheating and covering-up.

[charsibb]

you're punishing the innocent alumni.

How? No football? Did it say on their diploma that being a graduate entitled them to Nittany Lions football for the rest of their days? Any alumni that considers it punishment probably needs the death penalty to happen to their team. I would hope most alumni are disgusted by this and would understand if the death penalty happened.

like I said that culture prevails everywhere. not just in happy valley.

Do you have any evidence that it's worse anywhere else? I don't. Perhaps a drastic move such as the death penalty will affect a culture change in other places where it's needed.

like your bolded statement suggests, it was those powerful men who were in the wrong and they controlled the institution.

they should be put in jail. they should have civil actions taken against them. they should be ruined for their choices.

Those powerful men are either dead or going to prison, and will have civil actions taken against them. They are ruined. The culture remains.

putting corrupt CEOs in jail will deter future CEOs from cheating.

fining their companies and letting them walk away with millions does nothing to stop it from happening again.

Still not a valid comparison, as a corporate fine is not tantamount to the death penalty in football, but you continue to miss the point that it's a culture issue. And yes, it is in college athletics, but where do you begin to try to affect change in the landscape? By making a drastic move.

so you wouldn't have a problem if say some rogue coach did something to get USF football the death penalty?

If you don't think cheating and cover-ups are not prevalent at other football factories then you are naive.

you're right a corporate fine is not the same. shutting down the company would be the equivalent of the death penalty. that's even harsher and still not likely to be a deterrent.

as long as the people perpetrating these crimes go unpunished, they will continue to cheat and cover-up when they have a financial incentive to do so. coaches, ADs, and presidents walk away with millions and then we decide to punish those left behind. there is very little risk and a huge reward for cheating and covering-up.

I don't think anybody's saying the perpetrators should be let off.

I think most people are saying that's not enough, and more must be done to ensure it doesn't happen again.

[GaUSFBull]

you're punishing the innocent alumni.

How? No football? Did it say on their diploma that being a graduate entitled them to Nittany Lions football for the rest of their days? Any alumni that considers it punishment probably needs the death penalty to happen to their team. I would hope most alumni are disgusted by this and would understand if the death penalty happened.

like I said that culture prevails everywhere. not just in happy valley.

Do you have any evidence that it's worse anywhere else? I don't. Perhaps a drastic move such as the death penalty will affect a culture change in other places where it's needed.

like your bolded statement suggests, it was those powerful men who were in the wrong and they controlled the institution.

they should be put in jail. they should have civil actions taken against them. they should be ruined for their choices.

Those powerful men are either dead or going to prison, and will have civil actions taken against them. They are ruined. The culture remains.

putting corrupt CEOs in jail will deter future CEOs from cheating.

fining their companies and letting them walk away with millions does nothing to stop it from happening again.

Still not a valid comparison, as a corporate fine is not tantamount to the death penalty in football, but you continue to miss the point that it's a culture issue. And yes, it is in college athletics, but where do you begin to try to affect change in the landscape? By making a drastic move.

so you wouldn't have a problem if say some rogue coach did something to get USF football the death penalty?

If you don't think cheating and cover-ups are not prevalent at other football factories then you are naive.

you're right a corporate fine is not the same. shutting down the company would be the equivalent of the death penalty. that's even harsher and still not likely to be a deterrent.

as long as the people perpetrating these crimes go unpunished, they will continue to cheat and cover-up when they have a financial incentive to do so. coaches, ADs, and presidents walk away with millions and then we decide to punish those left behind. there is very little risk and a huge reward for cheating and covering-up.

I don't think anybody's saying the perpetrators should be let off.

I think most people are saying that's not enough, and more must be done to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Yep, and they're not being left off. Bull94 continues to ignore the issue of the culture, and the fact that the NCAA (possibly) has an opportunity here to make an example of Penn State.

Also, no one is saying that they don't believe cover ups and cheating doesn't happen at other institutions. I'm not sure why that came up in the first place. So far, this scandal has been the worst I've ever seen or heard of in college athletics, and I hope it's the worst I'll ever see. If the NCAA doesn't do anything to this program, I sure as hell hope that they exhaust every single avenue of consideration for a means to do so.

[Bull94]

you're punishing the innocent alumni.

How? No football? Did it say on their diploma that being a graduate entitled them to Nittany Lions football for the rest of their days? Any alumni that considers it punishment probably needs the death penalty to happen to their team. I would hope most alumni are disgusted by this and would understand if the death penalty happened.

like I said that culture prevails everywhere. not just in happy valley.

Do you have any evidence that it's worse anywhere else? I don't. Perhaps a drastic move such as the death penalty will affect a culture change in other places where it's needed.

like your bolded statement suggests, it was those powerful men who were in the wrong and they controlled the institution.

they should be put in jail. they should have civil actions taken against them. they should be ruined for their choices.

Those powerful men are either dead or going to prison, and will have civil actions taken against them. They are ruined. The culture remains.

putting corrupt CEOs in jail will deter future CEOs from cheating.

fining their companies and letting them walk away with millions does nothing to stop it from happening again.

Still not a valid comparison, as a corporate fine is not tantamount to the death penalty in football, but you continue to miss the point that it's a culture issue. And yes, it is in college athletics, but where do you begin to try to affect change in the landscape? By making a drastic move.

so you wouldn't have a problem if say some rogue coach did something to get USF football the death penalty?

If you don't think cheating and cover-ups are not prevalent at other football factories then you are naive.

you're right a corporate fine is not the same. shutting down the company would be the equivalent of the death penalty. that's even harsher and still not likely to be a deterrent.

as long as the people perpetrating these crimes go unpunished, they will continue to cheat and cover-up when they have a financial incentive to do so. coaches, ADs, and presidents walk away with millions and then we decide to punish those left behind. there is very little risk and a huge reward for cheating and covering-up.

I don't think anybody's saying the perpetrators should be let off.

I think most people are saying that's not enough, and more must be done to ensure it doesn't happen again.

I get that but punishing an inanimate institution is not a deterrent.

everyone associated with what happened at penn state are now gone. no one left had anything to do with the scandal or cover-up.

you guys talk about their culture.if by culture you mean covering -up a crime well that doesn't just happen at penn state.many schools put their athletic departments first. if you think they are still harboring pedophiles then you may have a point but I seriously doubt that.

[Bull94]

you're punishing the innocent alumni.

How? No football? Did it say on their diploma that being a graduate entitled them to Nittany Lions football for the rest of their days? Any alumni that considers it punishment probably needs the death penalty to happen to their team. I would hope most alumni are disgusted by this and would understand if the death penalty happened.

like I said that culture prevails everywhere. not just in happy valley.

Do you have any evidence that it's worse anywhere else? I don't. Perhaps a drastic move such as the death penalty will affect a culture change in other places where it's needed.

like your bolded statement suggests, it was those powerful men who were in the wrong and they controlled the institution.

they should be put in jail. they should have civil actions taken against them. they should be ruined for their choices.

Those powerful men are either dead or going to prison, and will have civil actions taken against them. They are ruined. The culture remains.

putting corrupt CEOs in jail will deter future CEOs from cheating.

fining their companies and letting them walk away with millions does nothing to stop it from happening again.

Still not a valid comparison, as a corporate fine is not tantamount to the death penalty in football, but you continue to miss the point that it's a culture issue. And yes, it is in college athletics, but where do you begin to try to affect change in the landscape? By making a drastic move.

so you wouldn't have a problem if say some rogue coach did something to get USF football the death penalty?

If you don't think cheating and cover-ups are not prevalent at other football factories then you are naive.

you're right a corporate fine is not the same. shutting down the company would be the equivalent of the death penalty. that's even harsher and still not likely to be a deterrent.

as long as the people perpetrating these crimes go unpunished, they will continue to cheat and cover-up when they have a financial incentive to do so. coaches, ADs, and presidents walk away with millions and then we decide to punish those left behind. there is very little risk and a huge reward for cheating and covering-up.

I don't think anybody's saying the perpetrators should be let off.

I think most people are saying that's not enough, and more must be done to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Yep, and they're not being left off. Bull94 continues to ignore the issue of the culture, and the fact that the NCAA (possibly) has an opportunity here to make an example of Penn State.

Also, no one is saying that they don't believe cover ups and cheating doesn't happen at other institutions. I'm not sure why that came up in the first place. So far, this scandal has been the worst I've ever seen or heard of in college athletics, and I hope it's the worst I'll ever see. If the NCAA doesn't do anything to this program, I sure as hell hope that they exhaust every single avenue of consideration for a means to do so.

what culture? does pen n state harbor pedophiles? that culture? yeah if they are doing that they need to be shut down. I assumed you meant a culture of cheating and covering up. that happens at every major athletic department. shut them all down if you're talking about the cheating and covering-up culture.