Penalties, Mental errors, and discipline.

[BigShoop]

Let's not go overboard with bencing starters especially on the offensive line. While our OL second team is talented it is very young. If we bench our starters we have no chance to win. Until these guys are ready to play I would rather take my chances with the penalties and still stay in the game.

10 yards is 10 yards.

Whether by sack or by penalty.

[RHBullsFan]

Whether its the football team with their excessive penalties or our basketball team with their freethrow woes, nothing aggravates me more than seeing us cut our own throats time and time again.

[CyberBull]

No not really.

There is a big difference between a starter committing a mistake and a untested rookie not being ready to play.

If the older player commits a mistake you move the ball back 10 yards and you live to play another play. In contrast the young OL is going to be more prone to completly miss on a play due to inexperience or being physically overwhelmed. When that happens your QB gets killed and the cost is more than just 10 yards. If we have to bring Banks in our season is essentially over.

I guess you can call me being pragmatic but that is where we are right now. If the young guys were ready they would be in there....I mean CJL is not exactly an idiot.

[smazza]

the penalty thing has been a problem for years

why?

we will never turn the corner if we  don't fix problem

cb says cjl isn't an idiot but the problem hasn't been corrected yet!

[Jake_Ryan]

well, during the thread about how sloppy we look with our jersyes hanging all out a few of us talked about how part of the problem could be that just a punishment isn't the solution. Maybe the coaches need to start instilling a sense of discipline and attention to detail in all facets. If the kids are hounded to be meticulous in everything they do and corrected continuously then we might see this sloppiness end. To bench them or make them run because of gameday mistakes without really instilling the discipline through practice or even into the personal life probably isn't ever going to be very effective.

The answer is simple.  Set up clear expectations for the players and communicate them.  Praise and reward them for positive behavior and correct negative behavior.  There must be accountability.  

If a player cannot meet the expectations as set out by the coaches, then take away some playing time.  He will eventually correct his mistakes or he won't play anymore.

[CyberBull]

Actually I think the penalties are getting better.

Last year we were overun every game with 4 or 5 personal foul penalties. That has vastly improved this season. The most damaging penalties have been holding, encroachment and illegal substitution.

I am not going to blame our kids for pass interference those are part of the game.

Look......I am not saying we are there yet but there are no easy answers. This problem really started 3 years ago when we stepped up in competition. Sometimes you have to credit the other team for forcing a player to hold. Sometimes our players just get beat at the line of scrimmage or in the secondary.

[Jim Johnson]

Actually I think the penalties are getting better.

Cyber... the penalty situation is clearly NOT getting better..

Consider these drives from our four games this year:

Tennessee Tech

Tennessee Tech had just interceted Banks and returned it to USF's 29 yard line...

     T 1-10 U29   TENNESSEE TECH drive start at 04:39 (3rd).

     T 1-10 U29   CRAFT, Robert pass incomplete.

     T 2-10 U29   CRAFT, Robert pass complete to SHIPP, Larry for 10 yards to the USF19,

              1ST DOWN TTU (BROWN, D'Juan).

     T 1-10 U19   WHITE, Derek rush for 4 yards to the USF15 (BATTLES, Cedric;CAMON, Javan).

     T 2-6  U15   WHITE, Derek rush for no gain to the USF15 (ROBINSON, T.;CAMON, Javan).

     T 3-6  U15   CRAFT, Robert pass incomplete to NICHOLS, Ryan, PENALTY USF pass interference 1 yards to the USF14, 1ST DOWN TTU, NO PLAY.

     T 1-10 U14   CRAFT, Robert pass incomplete to NICHOLS, Ryan, PENALTY USF pass interference 12 yards to the USF2, 1ST DOWN TTU, NO PLAY.

     T 1-G  U02   Timeout South Florida, clock 02:33.

     T 1-G  U02   CRAFT, Robert pass incomplete to SANDERS, Darren.

     T 2-G  U02   WHITE, Derek rush to the USF8, fumble by WHITE, Derek recovered by TTU TEAM at USF8.

     T 3-G  U08   Timeout South Florida, clock 01:42.

     T 3-G  U08   CRAFT, Robert pass complete to BONNER, Trey for 8 yards to the USF0, TOUCHDOWN, clock 01:36. FOSTER, Josh kick attempt good.

The first pass interference was on 3rd and 6.  TTU scored a touchdown when USF could have held them to a field goal.  To be sure, Banks' interception set up this score and prevented USF from shutting out a I-AA opponent.  But two dumb penalties made it easier.

South Carolina

South Carolina receives the opening kickoff.

     S 1-10 S19   Gray,Gonzie rush for 8 yards to the SC27 (CAMON, Javan).

     S 2-2  S27   Boyd, Cory rush for no gain to the SC27 (DAVIS, Devon;BATTLES, Cedric).

     S 3-2  S27   Newton,Syvelle rush for 1 yard to the SC28 (SELMON, Lee Roy).

     S 4-1  S28   Brown, Josh punt 39 yards to the USF33, downed, PENALTY USF roughing the kicker (JENKINS, Mike) 16 yards to the SC44, 1ST DOWN SC, NO PLAY.

     S 1-10 S44   Newton,Syvelle pass complete to Williamson,Troy for 56 yards to the USF0, 1ST DOWN SC, TOUCHDOWN, clock 12:34. Brown, Josh kick attempt good.

This was a big, big penalty.  USF's D stuffs USF on the first possession - 3 and out.  We get the penalty and the first play after USF throws the TD.  The momentum swing, the blow to USF's psyche.  USC might still have won the game, but it would have been different.

Texas Christian

     T 1-10 T39   TCU drive start at 05:34 (1st).

     T 1-10 T39   HASSELL, B. rush for 1 yard to the TCU40 (VERPAELE, D.).

     T 2-9  T40   HOBBS, Lonta rush for 7 yards to the TCU47 (McCULLOUGH, R.;CAMON, Javan).

     T 3-2  T47   HASSELL, B. pass incomplete to RODGERS, Cory.

     T 4-2  T47   PENALTY USF substitution infraction 5 yards to the USF48, 1ST DOWN TCU.

     T 1-10 U48   HASSELL, B. pass complete to RODGERS, Cory for 36 yards to the USF12, 1ST DOWN TCU (JENKINS, Mike).

     T 1-10 U12   HOBBS, Lonta rush for 5 yards to the USF7 (NICHOLAS, S.;CAMON, Javan).

     T 2-5  U07   HASSELL, B. pass complete to HOBBS, Lonta for 7 yards to the USF0, 1ST DOWN TCU, TOUCHDOWN, clock 03:18. LOCOCO, Peter kick attempt good.

---------------------

     T 1-10 U41   TCU drive start at 07:24 (2nd).

     T 1-10 U41   HASSELL, B. pass complete to RODGERS, Cory for 9 yards to the USF32 (JENKINS, Mike).

     T 2-1  U32   HASSELL, B. pass complete to RODGERS, Cory for 16 yards to the USF16, 1ST DOWN TCU, out-of-bounds.

     T 1-10 U16   PENALTY TCU false start 5 yards to the USF21.

     T 1-15 U21   HASSELL, B. rush for 5 yards to the USF16 (CAMON, Javan).

     T 2-10 U16   HASSELL, B. pass incomplete to RODGERS, Cory, PENALTY USF pass interference (JENKINS, Mike) 14 yards to the USF2, 1ST DOWN TCU, NO PLAY.

     T 1-G  U02   HOBBS, Lonta rush for loss of 1 yard to the USF3 (NICHOLAS, S.).

     T 2-G  U03   HOBBS, Lonta rush for 3 yards to the USF0, TOUCHDOWN, clock 05:07. LOCOCO, Peter kick attempt good.

---------------------

     T 3-9  T40   Start of OT  quarter, clock 15:00, TCU ball on USF25.

     T 3-9  U25   HOBBS, Lonta rush for 1 yard to the USF24 (NICHOLAS, S.).

     T 4-8  U24   HASSELL, B. pass incomplete to RODGERS, Cory (JENKINS, Mike), PENALTY USF pass interference (JENKINS, Mike) 11 yards to the USF13, 1ST DOWN TCU, NO PLAY.

     T 1-10 U13   HOBBS, Lonta rush for 2 yards to the USF11 (VERPAELE, D.), PENALTY USF offside 5 yards to the USF8, NO PLAY.

     T 1-5  U08   HOBBS, Lonta rush for 8 yards to the USF0, 1ST DOWN TCU, TOUCHDOWN, clock 15:00. LOCOCO, Peter kick attempt good.

On the first drive listed, TCU took the lead 10-7.  How could we have 12 men on the field on a punt - 5 yards and they get a first down.  (This also happened against USM, but USM didn't score on that drive).

On the second drive, TCU went up 17-10.  At this point, we can not say that TCU wouldn't have scored on this drive - penalty was on 2nd and 10 - but the extra 15 yards made it easier.

On the thrid drive, TCU scored the first TD in overtime to take the lead 38-31.  The first one was on 4th and 8.  Maybe without TWO penalties on the drive, the defense could have held TCU scoreless or at least to a field goal and won the game in the first OT.

Southern Miss

     S 1-10 H38 USM drive start at 06:35 (4th).

     S 1-10 H38 HARRIS, Anthony rush for 2 yards to the USF36 (KOBEL, Craig;ST. LOUIS, Pat).

     S 2-8 H36 ALMOND, Dustin pass incomplete to LAWRENCE, DaRon. U 3-8 H36 ALMOND, Dustin pass intercepted by CAMON, Javan at the USF12, CAMON, Javan return to the USF12, PENALTY USF pass interference (GIPSON, Bruce) 15 yards to the USF21, 1ST DOWN USM, NO PLAY.

     S 1-10 H21 PENALTY USF unsportsmanlike conduct (ROYAL, Terrence) 10 yards to the USF11, 1ST DOWN USM.

     S 1-10 H11 HARRIS, Anthony rush for 11 yards to the USF0, 1ST DOWN USM, TOUCHDOWN, clock 05:41.  MCCALEB, Darren kick attempt good.

These penalties gave USM the winning score - two nails in the coffin for this game.

I know Jim Leavitt is the one to find the answers, and we as posters to this board have NO say in the matter.  Still, you would think the head coach would try EVERYTHING he can to end the problem.  I have pointed out one option he clearly has not considered as of yet.

[BullDoug]

pass interference is the direct result of coaching or aggressive play.  Benching is not the solution.  Additionally, many of USF's past pass interference calls have been borderline or just plain chippy.  Now unsportsman conduct as in roughing a passer is unacceptable or a obvious late hit should result in "time on the pine".  Multiple offsides or holding pens should result in t.o.t.p. too.

[bulls96go]

to be very good at our level of talent we need to play close to error/penalty free football or just smart football

[WoolyBully]

to be very good at our level of talent we need to play close to error/penalty free football or just smart football

That's it in a nutshell. Back when we were a 1A team masquerading as IAA, we could afford to rack up the penalty yardage and still win...because we were that much better than the opposition. Now, however, the competition is much more improved and we no longer enjoy  the luxury we once had, of being able to win in spite of penalty yardage.  8)