Attendance: Turnstile vs. Ticket Sales

[USF-PMR]

Bottom line is that getting out and seeing the games live is the best.  With more people in the stands, year after year, more TV coverage will ensue.  So who cares what the Turn is or the Sales are - it is the amount of people in the Stands that will set the Tempo!

[Triple B]

How did I know that Knight Light had that article at his fingetips.  He has it saved on his computer so he can whip it out anytime USF football comes up in discussion.

Is he going to report it every 5 minutes when we have 3 games over 45K this year?  No, because that would make us look good.

I thought this new board was supposed to have a nifty little feature where you could "Vote someone off the island" .... I haven't found it yet.

[Bullpride08]

Bien, It's obvious you do not know what phantom tickets are.

They are tickets that are not sold or distributed, but rather that are added to an attendance count as a guestimate. They were never in existence, nor were they meant to be in existence. They are just part of a number created to get an attendance figure.

In most cases it works like this (not sure if USF follows this exact formula, but most sports entities do): USF has 18,000 season ticket holders. Then they add in students. Then pregame sales. Then add in free tickets distrubted to charities, recruits, etc. They really don't know walkups until well after the game so they'll guestimate walkup tickets sold.

For example for FIU we had 27,114 as our attendance. Actual was around 21,000. Yes, a lot of corporate didn't show, but that 27,114 is based more on an estimation that includes tickets that probably were not sold, distributed, or ever in existence.

This is a good article on it: http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060514/news_lz1s14zeig.html

Nope Joe, that article was about what I explained.  My problem with your 'phantom ticket' mess is I subscribe to ET's reasoning that tickets are still tickets and they are distributed for a reason.  If USF makes money and gives someone tickets then what's 'phantom' abou that?  NOTHING!  The only 'phantom' aspect that you didn't properly convey is 'actual turnstile numbers'.  You insinuate 'phantom tickets' as if some USF rep is running around with thousands of tickets sticking them on people cars in hopes of attendance.  That's not the case, nor the root of the article you possessed.  USF provides tickets to students- but the student attendance is based solely on turnstile....and yes Joe the students pay because they're actually charged something like $7 per credit hour for the right to free tickets to USF events so again USF makes money from those tickets.

I'd understand your reasoning better if you called it 'phantom attendance' because that's what the article you are citing was explaining.  My point is there is no phantom tickets, just 'phantom' attendees.  UCF also announced tickets sold last year, and maybe KL could dig up that article in fact there was an announcement for the USF game of actual and tickets sold.  Two different numbers.  My point, ET's point, is USF is generating revenue, or interest with the tickets they distribute and that's all they distribute.  You could run around to UF games and say the 1000 or so recruits they invite to games each week with a family member and teammates are 'phantom tickets'.  What's 'phantom' about them if they actually attend the game? 

This is an enormously semantical discussion.  There is a discrepancy between sold and distributed tickets and actual attendance.  However the distributed tickets at USF are all distributed for a reason, i.e. corporate sponsorship, recruits, coaches, conference officials....They have meaning and most are provided to those groups because they generate income or new recruits.  Take Gunn Allen that probably puts more than $100k in USF Athletics cofers annually in advertising dollars because Jay Gunn is an alum.  If they get 100 football tickets and 50 are used, what makes the other 50 'phantom'?  WE STILL GENERATED $100K whether that fifty came or didn't so there's nothing 'phantom' about it.  Jay Gunn buys floor seats to the Bulls games, but he might get another group for his advertisement in the SunDome. 

This is a ridiculous argument we all know our announced numbers are distributed not attended.  That's not even arguable, but at some point you have to give some credence to the announced number because it represents more interest, more revenue, and more potential.

[Joe]

Dear God,

It's an industry term Bien, I'm sorry it throws you through a loop. Phantom Tickets = tickets that do not exist, they were part of a number the people make up when trying guestimate walk up attendance.

The Basic Equation (it varies): Season Tickets + Tickets Distrubuted (usually stops about 2-3 days before a game) + Walk up (which is usually an estimate) = Announced Attendance

Phantom Tickets = Estimated Walkup Sales - Actual Walkup Sales

None of the things you were naming are phantom tickets. They are either Season tickets (in the corporate case) or Tickets Distributed (in the recruits/charity/etc)

Please tell me where I even made reference to the fact that these tickets where from USF just running around handing them out. In fact I made a clear distinction to those types of tickets being "tickets distributed"

[BullsFanInTX]

Dear gol',

It's an industry term Bien, I'm sorry it throws you through a loop. Phantom Tickets = tickets that do not exist, they were part of a number the people make up when trying guestimate walk up attendance.

The Basic Equation (it varies): Season Tickets + Tickets Distrubuted (usually stops about 2-3 days before a game) + Walk up (which is usually an estimate) = Announced Attendance

Phantom Tickets = Estimated Walkup Sales - Actual Walkup Sales

None of the things you were naming are phantom tickets. They are either Season tickets (in the corporate case) or Tickets Distributed (in the recruits/charity/etc)

Please tell me where I even made reference to the fact that these tickets where from USF just running around handing them out. In fact I made a clear distinction to those types of tickets being "tickets distributed"

Joe,

Why would they have to "guesstimate" walk up sales.  Everyone that walks up and buys a ticket is assigned a seat, and therefore is in the computer and is accounted for.  What guessing is there about that.  They should have the exact # of walk ups in their computers.

[crambone]

Too many numbers =/

head hurts!

[Joe]

Dear gol',

It's an industry term Bien, I'm sorry it throws you through a loop. Phantom Tickets = tickets that do not exist, they were part of a number the people make up when trying guestimate walk up attendance.

The Basic Equation (it varies): Season Tickets + Tickets Distrubuted (usually stops about 2-3 days before a game) + Walk up (which is usually an estimate) = Announced Attendance

Phantom Tickets = Estimated Walkup Sales - Actual Walkup Sales

None of the things you were naming are phantom tickets. They are either Season tickets (in the corporate case) or Tickets Distributed (in the recruits/charity/etc)

Please tell me where I even made reference to the fact that these tickets where from USF just running around handing them out. In fact I made a clear distinction to those types of tickets being "tickets distributed"

Joe,

Why would they have to "guesstimate" walk up sales.  Everyone that walks up and buys a ticket is assigned a seat, and therefore is in the computer and is accounted for.  What guessing is there about that.  They should have the exact # of walk ups in their computers.

While there is some technology not everyone uses it. Especially when you have to use the ticketmaster system.

Maybe USF does get them instantaneously, if someone knows let me know. I was just bringing up the point that there could be phantom tickets in the announced attendance number. However, I do not that for most schools or pro teams, when not sold out, definitive numbers are not known til after the game.

Might be different at USF.