Bulls Series With UCF Likely Over

[BULLheaded]

We have 10+ page threads on hoochie mamas, a placekicker's mom, and Ryan Hamilton...please don't judge interest by length of thread(s).

Maybe, but rarely do we get a football related thread this long unless its a gameday thread.

Rarely do we have an opponent on here as frequently as we have UCFers.  Hence I believe there are other reasons for the length of thread.  We have heard UCF lodge complaints and insults and challneges for YEARS....no other team has ever criticized us, no other opponent newspaper (Sentinel) gives as much negative press to the Bulls, no other fan base outside of UCF has membership on this board in such large numbers and WHY?  We have played twice and beat them twice.  We beat them handily in about every sport.  There is no reason to reward them with a "rivalry".  Again, if we play them or not it is no different to me than FIU or FAU.  If the students enjoy it more, that's understandable.  But those in charge of the program (and many fans) know better.  We should not legitimize their failure of a program by appearing to be on equal footing or that "we need" the game as K-L likes to say. 

two other considerations here

1) It's a double edged sword for those of us who don't want this game. Either we say nothing and those who want the game will say there is nobody that doesn't want this game, or if we argue against it they say wow look at all the responses there must really be interested. Basically they want the game and will twist things to prove their point.

2) These threads are long but often times it is the same handfull of people making post after post arguing back and forth (like myself and joe) Also, the ucfers join in and nobody is arguing that they don't have an interest in this game. So remove the ucfers and the handful of repeat posters and how many people really are showing interest?

[ProudBull]

We have 10+ page threads on hoochie mamas, a placekicker's mom, and Ryan Hamilton...please don't judge interest by length of thread(s).

Maybe, but rarely do we get a football related thread this long unless its a gameday thread.

Rarely do we have an opponent on here as frequently as we have UCFers.  Hence I believe there are other reasons for the length of thread.  We have heard UCF lodge complaints and insults and challneges for YEARS....no other team has ever criticized us, no other opponent newspaper (Sentinel) gives as much negative press to the Bulls, no other fan base outside of UCF has membership on this board in such large numbers and WHY?  We have played twice and beat them twice.  We beat them handily in about every sport.  There is no reason to reward them with a "rivalry".  Again, if we play them or not it is no different to me than FIU or FAU.  If the students enjoy it more, that's understandable.  But those in charge of the program (and many fans) know better.  We should not legitimize their failure of a program by appearing to be on equal footing or that "we need" the game as K-L likes to say. 

Let me say first that I am not going to twist things to make it look one way or another for this "rivarly."  I was pointing out that this really has the makings of one if we like it or not.  And Jim you are right about the thread lengths, but I think my other points still stand.  There are a few things here that really have not order or are fr one side or another:

-not all rivalries start with both teams on equal footing or even continue that way.  I think either UF or FSU won a bunch of games in a row for a while. 

-not all rivalries really play every year. ie. UL and UK

-We don't need the UCF game. We have done fine without it for many years and in no point in our history of football, or any sport can we say without UCF we couldn't have done "X"  As it stands it is just an OOC game.  What weight we put on that is up to CJL.

-what does it matter if you call them our rivals or not? We are not going to play them in the immediate future after 2008.  Call them what you want we have beat them twice and a great chance for the third, we are above them in in every other aspect of the game and calling them a rival doesn't change that.  Playing any game doesn't put us on someone elses level.  If that was true than why are we playing ELON? 

-As for the fans, well it is elementary enough that casual fans would think that there should be one.  I won't repeat all the arguments, but many of them makes sense, so there is a lot of banter on these boards.

-Notice how it always turns into an argument about academics or an OCS or the campus, etc., etc.  A rivarly in football is about football.  Everything else is just excuses.  Can you image an board where FSU fans are making fun of UF's campus because they can't talk football?  It doesn't make sense.

-The sentinel is a rag and everyone in the state of Flordia knows it.  Need I say more?

That's just my uneducated 2 cents.  I an not sure what it means, but I can tell you it is long enough that if I came by my post I wouldn't end up reading it ;D

[Joe]

I just tend to believe that if you were to send a questionaire out to our season ticket holders you would get a majority saying they like the annual UCF, they would also say they believe it should continue.

On here, we have about 100 or so very hardcore and committed fans who delve into every aspect of the program, the majority don't want the game. However, most of them are in spite of UCF because they're sick on the annoying fans like K_L who come and add no relevance to a conversation.

I like the game for its aesthetic value. It creates interest in a game (one of our 2 non-BCS slots) that would not be there for any other nonBCS team, outside Navy or Army, and even then there is a question as to whether a game against those guys could be.  (Army drew 36,000 in 2004)

Further, USF still has not fully connected with the student fanbase. While I expect it to change, it's not going to happen overnight. SO much is made about what this program can do to create or interest or bring more money in. The reality is the current students are the future of the viability of this program on a national scale. It will get to a point where to compete with the top 10 (Texas, Michigan, Florida, etc) we're gonna have to spend like a top 10 team, and the majority of those schools aren't solely making money off of their conferences; they all get over $20 Million a year in booster contributions for football. The current USF students will probably be the ones paying those fees, and any interest we can garner is great for the program.

Finally, yes we are adding Miami to the schedule, but that doesn't mean we should just desert a game that generates interest.  If USF had 40,000 actual bodies at every game, I'd see it differently, but we don't, and last year was a proof that it makes more than USF right now to draw fans.

I understand your point of view, but I do not agree with it at all.

[PitBull]

On here, we have about 100 or so very hardcore and committed fans who delve into every aspect of the program, the majority don't want the game. However, most of them are in spite of UCF because they're sick on the annoying fans like K_L who come and add no relevance to a conversation.

Indeed.  I think too many fans on this msg board are basing their desire on ending the UCF series purely on emotion and "sticking" it to UCF fans.  From a logistic standpoint, it makes financial as well as SOS sense.  Why not have UCF be our tune up game?  I'd like to hear people on here rationalize that 1-AA tune ups like ELON get our team more prepared and bring in more dollars than a game like UCF.  Remember, not every OOC game will be a BCS matchup.. why not have UCF be our non-BCS OOC game?

[puc86]

They definately bring in more money as they do not require a return game.

On here, we have about 100 or so very hardcore and committed fans who delve into every aspect of the program, the majority don't want the game. However, most of them are in spite of UCF because they're sick on the annoying fans like K_L who come and add no relevance to a conversation.

Indeed.  I think too many fans on this msg board are basing their desire on ending the UCF series purely on emotion and "sticking" it to UCF fans.  From a logistic standpoint, it makes financial as well as SOS sense.  Why not have UCF be our tune up game?  I'd like to hear people on here rationalize that 1-AA tune ups like ELON get our team more prepared and bring in more dollars than a game like UCF.  Remember, not every OOC game will be a BCS matchup.. why not have UCF be our non-BCS OOC game?

[Joe]

They definately bring in more money as they do not require a return game.

I'd argue with that. We're paying Elon and Wofford 300k each to come play at RJS. Last year McNeese drew 26,000.

The I-AA is very very useful because it in essence gives us a chance to get our ducks in a row as far as gameplay goes, and it gives us a free game to get bowl eligible.

What it is really not good for is a revenue source. Outside FAMU (who we apparently gave gate receipts to come play here) our I-AA games since going I-A full time have averaged about 24,000 according to my calaculations. The best draw was the 2003 homecoming game v. Charleston Southern at 28,000

[BULLheaded]

I just tend to believe that if you were to send a questionaire out to our season ticket holders you would get a majority saying they like the annual UCF, they would also say they believe it should continue.

On here, we have about 100 or so very hardcore and committed fans who delve into every aspect of the program, the majority don't want the game. However, most of them are in spite of UCF because they're sick on the annoying fans like K_L who come and add no relevance to a conversation.

I like the game for its aesthetic value. It creates interest in a game (one of our 2 non-BCS slots) that would not be there for any other nonBCS team, outside Navy or Army, and even then there is a question as to whether a game against those guys could be.  (Army drew 36,000 in 2004)

Further, USF still has not fully connected with the student fanbase. While I expect it to change, it's not going to happen overnight. SO much is made about what this program can do to create or interest or bring more money in. The reality is the current students are the future of the viability of this program on a national scale. It will get to a point where to compete with the top 10 (Texas, Michigan, Florida, etc) we're gonna have to spend like a top 10 team, and the majority of those schools aren't solely making money off of their conferences; they all get over $20 Million a year in booster contributions for football. The current USF students will probably be the ones paying those fees, and any interest we can garner is great for the program.

Finally, yes we are adding Miami to the schedule, but that doesn't mean we should just desert a game that generates interest.  If USF had 40,000 actual bodies at every game, I'd see it differently, but we don't, and last year was a proof that it makes more than USF right now to draw fans.

I understand your point of view, but I do not agree with it at all.

No doubt these are some positive things about this game, although I think there are negative aspects of the game that outweigh this. Yes, in the short term a few thousand extra butts in seats help out but here are some things that bother me about this game

1) Distinguishing ourselves to recruits, media, fans etc... around the country. Right now we joke about F_U same as in miichigan there is U_M and frankly talking to people outside the area you can say the same about ucf and us....U_F. I think in the long run separating ourselves from them and establishing our own identity is extremely important and if we form a rivalry (ie...link ourselves with ucf) this makes that much more difficult.

2) Respect, the quality of a team is reflected by the quality of the team's rivalries. We don't need to establish a rivalry that inherently is and will always be looked at as Florida's minor league bout. I don't see how this helps us garner the respect we are trying to achieve, in addition, hopefully we are attempting to prove that we are a BCS calibur team and defining ourselves by establishing our biggest game of the year against a non-bcs team (and a poor quality one at that) certainly does not further that cause.

3) Interest, yes I know there is some interest right now and I honestly believe that is because to the casual fan and even many of the die hards ucf and usf are on the same level. I find it hard to imagine if we attain the success that we are all hoping for that interest in this game will remain high (unless ucf has some luck and enters a bcs conference or seriously turns around the quality of their program...and I'm not talking stadiums or practice facilities). Really, if we beat Miami a couple times, continue to win against ranked teams like UL and WVU or if we beat Auburn do you really think you'll be jacked about playing ucf? I just can't imagine that if we get a taste of beating the best that we'll ever be satisfied with a ucf type game again....especially an annual series or rivalry.

To reiterate your concluding remarks, I also understand your point of view but strongly disagree with it. There are just bigger hills to climb and better fish to fry and I don't think holding ourselves back for a quick fix in the short term is good for the program in the long run.

[Jamie]

I said this in another thread but I'll repeat it here. The only emotion in this series is from UCF's jealousy, and the only reason USF wants to win is because UCF's antics are annoying. That's not a healthy rivalry, that's a grudge match, and it's not even our grudge, so what's the point.

[HarveyGlass]

I agree, BULLheaded.

In the long run, I can only see positives for UCF and negatives for USF.  What does USF get out of this game besides a few OrlandoDisney people in the seats?

For a BigEast team to attach itself to a CUSA team like that is goofy.  Of course UCF wants this to be a rivalry, for many, many reasons.  It will be very beneficial to their program in the long run.  Even if they never win, but especially if they do squeak one out every once in a while.  It legitimizes their program, and will make their program better.  Is that what USF should want?  I don't know.

UCF is a leech.  They are trying like hell to attach themselves to the soaring comet that is USF, and it's just jealousy and desperation.  Until they leave CUSA, or at least finish in the top half repeatedly, it's crazy to put them on equal footing with a top25 BCS team.

[puc86]

And that is more than getting paid nothing to play at UCF. When we play at home we cut travel expenses to the bare minimum, sell tickets to all of our season ticket holders, create exposure within OUR community, allow OUR fans to see games and make money every single year as opposed to every other year.

They definately bring in more money as they do not require a return game.

I'd argue with that. We're paying Elon and Wofford 300k each to come play at RJS. Last year McNeese drew 26,000.

The I-AA is very very useful because it in essence gives us a chance to get our ducks in a row as far as gameplay goes, and it gives us a free game to get bowl eligible.

What it is really not good for is a revenue source. Outside FAMU (who we apparently gave gate receipts to come play here) our I-AA games since going I-A full time have averaged about 24,000 according to my calaculations. The best draw was the 2003 homecoming game v. Charleston Southern at 28,000