Our University

[Belle of the Bull]

totally. some people work their a$$es off - others wait for retirement.

regardless- i would like to encourage all yall to view the strategic plan and submit your feedback.

http://www.ods.usf.edu/plans/strategic/

you can also see the previous plan through 2006 and judge for yourselves if the admin has done a good enough job in accomplishing their goals thus far.  Personally, i think USF has accomplished 99% of everything on their list - however I think the execution in a lot of ways - has been poor. But again see for yourselves. There is little that can be done about things that you don't like if you don't let those (who are in positions of power) know.  

[Drewski]

I've been reading a lot lately on our plan to position ourselves for an invitation into the Association of American Universities (AAU), but I'm wondering if anybody here knows when the administration thinks that this will come into fruition. I read Renu Khator's plans for what we need to improve upon, and a lot of these initiatives could take a very long time, and rightfully so. AAU membership would be an incredible achievement for us. One that I wish will be possible one day.

Dr. Khator's Presentation:

http://files.acad.usf.edu/Presentations-Reports/Khator/2007-03-01-AAU-and-USF.pdf

[Economics_Nerd82]

You act like $3,240 is the REAL cost of an education..

You act like it SHOULD cost thousand or more dollars to educate yourself.

Why??

Its like society has just accepted that it should take thousands of dollars worth of debt to attend at TAX-SUBSIDIZED institution..

It is an absurd notion..  It is ridiculous.

Who cares that Florida is one of the most affordable places to send your kid to college.

Why not keep it affordable????

[highlight]It is unproductive... it is stupid economically to continue to raise the tuition rates...[/highlight]

It does nothing but saddle kids with thousand of more dollars in college education costs.

PLUS -- college students never realize what a degree costs - because they do nothing but BORROW money to pay for it...

I remember when I worked in the US Senate..  A Senator by the name of Judd Gregg from New Hampshire would litteraly raise hell over raising the federal borrowing limits for Stafford Loans.  He is a Republican (I am a Democrat) from New Hampshire.  He chaired the Education Committee in the US Senate.

He said "by raising the limits by which  students can borrow money for college education in the form of a stafford loan, you are giving colleges and universities free will to raise tuitions...  They know EXACTLY what a kid can borrow to pay his tuition.   [highlight]Who wins?  Sallie Mae and your local bank....not the undergraduate.!"[/highlight]

The undergraduate sees very little in his quality of education given -  compared to the actual tuition charged.

I couldn't agree more.

[highlight]It is a ridiculous notion to state that a kid should have to pay/borrow 10K dollars a year to go to college.[/highlight]

It is downright stupid.

Colleges and Universities benefit ten fold from taxpayer dollars -- they need to learn to either lobby for general revenue or raise it from the public sector.

The days of going after the non-voting bloc of college students with high tuition rates should be over with

Why shouldn't students borrow money to pay for college? People borrow money for all kinds of important (expensive) purchases in their lives... houses, cars, starting a business etc. Why should education be any different? Education is a valuable thing in the world; this is why I'm getting a masters degree.

It's not unproductive... it's efficient. A higher tuition will push away the losers who skip class and just attend (only to eventually drop out) to appease mommy and daddy. It free's professors to education the people who want to be there, free's labs for students who want to use them, etc..

Can't afford the higher tuition? Take on debt, ask the parents for more money, get a second job, join the army, obtain a scholarship... point being, if you value it enough you'll find away to pay for it. But, don't complain that you pay "too much" in tuition and then complain that Cooper is so run down, there aren't enough trees planted around campus, that there is no architecture building, there is no on-campus stadium, or any of the other million complaints people have.

[Belle of the Bull]

I've been reading a lot lately on our plan to position ourselves for an invitation into the Association of American Universities (AAU), but I'm wondering if anybody here knows when the administration thinks that this will come into fruition. I read Renu Khator's plans for what we need to improve upon, and a lot of these initiatives could take a very long time, and rightfully so. AAU membership would be an incredible achievement for us. One that I wish will be possible one day.

Dr. Khator's Presentation:

http://files.acad.usf.edu/Presentations-Reports/Khator/2007-03-01-AAU-and-USF.pdf

It will take about 20 years I think (at least thats what my friends that are professors at USF think).  

Unfortunately, USF has been neglecting its humanities departments for so long - it will take a long long long time for us to get credibility in that end. We also need QUALITY (being the key word) PhD programs in History and Poli Sci - and at the rate we're going - that isnt happening. If we do get AAU membership - it wont be because of the humanities departments.

AAU membership is based on being a well rounded university that is strong in all areas. Currently we dont have that. We hav a lot of profs left over from out days as a R2 university - they hate teaching, hate publishing and hate USF. They are dead weight and unil they retire (cause we cant fiire them) - they are doing NOTHING for USF. Its sad that currently there are grad students at USF with more publications than some full professors. I say move em to the branch campuses (lakeland and sarasota) if that is possible and hire new blood that will help the rankings (and be better teachers too).  Personally, if I were in admin - I would dump $$$ into humanities purely because of economics. The cost of hiring 2.5 professors in English is equal to ONE professor in business. You can get more bang for your buck.

But to be fair - we have made some GREAT hires - the B School just got Iowa's dean. Great guy. Will do a lot for the B School. Comm studies at USF also just hired 2 of the best new scholars out on the job market last year. And Engineering is kicking A$$ as usual. So we are on our way- but we need to pour more money into the humanities.

[Bobcat99]

I'll iterate what others have said in their observations that USF has extremely low tuition -- the lowest, overall, in the country for this level of university -- and the low income is really hurting our ability to grow academically. We're particularly suffering in a lot of hiring areas. This is due to 1) our low salaries compared to other schools at our level and 2) our fairly low academic standards.

Growing is good, but if we can grow AND increase our academic standards, that would be the goal the administration ought to be seeking. Either we can be a top-level university, or we can be the university that serves our community. The combination of low tuition and Bright Futures (which is kind of ludicrous in a lot of ways) don't do a lot to help our academic reputation. The problem is, of course, that the system feeding our students is entirely broken.

We need to fix Florida public high schools first. We have students who earn 75% scholarships who wouldn't get into a single state university in most states. The low standards of Bright Futures only reflect how poor high schools are in Florida. We need to fix those, in order to improve the quality of students entering our universities. That immediately increases our reputation, and encourages out-of-state students to attend -- and THAT is where we can make our money.

[Knight_Light]

It is a ridiculous notion to state that a kid should have to pay/borrow 10K dollars a year to go to college.

It is downright stupid.

Glad to know Socialism is alive and well on college campuses today.

Side note: Not EVERY kid needs to borrow 10k to go to school.

Guess what? I didn't borrow ONE DIME to go to college...as I worked my a$tro off during High School and College..every weekend...every summer...while plenty of others would be hitting the beaches and spending $$$$ they didn't have.

Try something new...its called work...and its available everywhere.

Good luck.

[Buller64]

Raising tuition but seems very necessary.  some selected tuition and fees from other universities (in-state only, 15 semster hours per term):

Virginia: $7,845

NC State: $5,117

Kansas State: $5,175

Northern Illinois: $5,550

UAB: $4,792

Misissippi: $5,752.50

USF $3,340

Adding a $1,000 to undergad tuition would still make us one of the lowest in the nation.  If you want to play with the medium dogs you are going to have to pony it up.  If we want to be a member of AAU we better be thinking about adding $2,000 or $3,000.

FYI (Big East Tuition, State Schools only)

UCONN: $6,816

WVU: $4,476

RUTGERS: Ranges from $3,941 to $4,042 depending upopn campus and school.

[Bulls 8_va]

I believe he's talk about the same thing you're TRYING to talk about.

[Belle of the Bull]

I'll iterate what others have said in their observations that USF has extremely low tuition -- the lowest, overall, in the country for this level of university -- and the low income is really hurting our ability to grow academically. We're particularly suffering in a lot of hiring areas. This is due to 1) our low salaries compared to other schools at our level and 2) our fairly low academic standards.

Growing is good, but if we can grow AND increase our academic standards, that would be the goal the administration ought to be seeking. Either we can be a top-level university, or we can be the university that serves our community. The combination of low tuition and Bright Futures (which is kind of ludicrous in a lot of ways) don't do a lot to help our academic reputation. The problem is, of course, that the system feeding our students is entirely broken.

We need to fix Florida public high schools first. We have students who earn 75% scholarships who wouldn't get into a single state university in most states. The low standards of Bright Futures only reflect how poor high schools are in Florida. We need to fix those, in order to improve the quality of students entering our universities. That immediately increases our reputation, and encourages out-of-state students to attend -- and THAT is where we can make our money.

This is true. But the problem is also with the menaliity that everyone needs and should go to college. that is where the problem starts. Thing is - not everyone should go to college. Not everyone wants to go or is smart enough to attend. And thats ok. Everyone has unique special gifts they can give to the world. this sense of entitlement that everyone needs to get in to a FL university is what is killing the education system in this state. THen the state of FL builds more universities that it cant afford to fund. And EVERYONE wants to be a major research university. When you have community colleges building DORMS - you have a problem. Community Colleges want to be universities and universities want to be Research Universities. They all compete  for the same funds and you end up with UF and FSU getting more money while USF gets screwed.

I don't think that this problem will ever be fixed. No politiciian wants to sound elitest - and say "not everyone is smart enough to get into a FL university". Insead they want to accomodate every loser with a 1.5 GPA by providing them with a commuter school within driving distance from their house. Let me share a little story with you:

At the bowl game I had a conversation with someone from administration. I asked him why they spent hundreds of millons of dollars on a lakeland and sarasota campus. Shouldnt that money have gone to improving things in tampa first?  He responded by telling me that branch campuses are built because and I quote "people don't want to drive from sarasota to tampa or from lakeland to tampa - so we needed to build places that are convienent for them"????!!!!!

So basically - here is what i am hearing:

Commutter Stuudent: "Im sorry. I don't want to drive 30 minutes to college. I cant get into any of the "good schools" in state or out of state - and I don't really want to go to community college. I'll just have the state of FL build me a university near my house."

USF Admin: "Sure! We'll do that for you.  We know you hate to drive. It will cost us a lot of money - but hey, you're worth it!"

How freakin nice of them.

Pisses me off every time.

I'm not saying branch campuses arent a good idea. I am saying we need to attend to the needs of the main campus first. If we don't do that - we will NEVER be an academic powerhouse that we could be.

[Apis Bull]

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