Rating the state's RB's

[dabull80]

Rice you sound like George Steinberner.  If I get the most high profile players I will win the World Series.  I think the fans of today spend too much time on an x-box and think the super team is the super players.  Now to help you out as to why again Hall is the best RB in Florida let me give you an example.  Best QB in the NFL ?  Payton Manning of course that is why he has no Super Bowl rings and Tom Brady has three.  Best center in the NBA Shaq because he has three(I think) Championships or Bill Russell who has like a killzillion.  This is why Michael Jordan was so great because he raised the level of the whole team.  Again this is why Andre is the best RB in Fl because he brings so much to the "TEAM".  I always  get a chuckle out of all the so called experts when it comes to the NFL draft because the guys that do it for living get it wrong all the time.  And thanks Pdiddy I think you helped prove my point.

[Bullpride08]

Let clarify this a bit so we don't go bickering about someone's pro potential which is still over 10 months away for them.

Hall is not the most talented RB in the state of FL.   No way.  I honestly believe he's probably right there with UF's present company of RB's like Wynn, and Manson.  He's definitely better than UM's Moss (very overrated), but Moss is a load, and the guys behind him have never carried the rock in a college game.

However, Lorenzo Booker and Washington are both great backs.  More so Washington with is amazing speed, cutback ability and he's stout despite being short.

You have to put Washington ahead of Hall.  He's an inch shorter and still heavier, and runs a legit 4.4.  The guys returned 4 kicks at FSU for a reason.

All this is not to say that Hall doesn't bring more to the team, but those guys don't need to be coaches and motivators because they play in a system that's built to succeed and the motivation is built-in.

[Guest usfpdiddyguest]

Let clarify this a bit so we don't go bickering about someone's pro potential which is still over 10 months away for them.

Hall is not the most talented RB in the state of FL.   No way.  I honestly believe he's probably right there with UF's present company of RB's like Wynn, and Manson.  He's definitely better than UM's Moss (very overrated), but Moss is a load, and the guys behind him have never carried the rock in a college game.

However, Lorenzo Booker and Washington are both great backs.  More so Washington with is amazing speed, cutback ability and he's stout despite being short.

You have to put Washington ahead of Hall.  He's an inch shorter and still heavier, and runs a legit 4.4.  The guys returned 4 kicks at FSU for a reason.

All this is not to say that Hall doesn't bring more to the team, but those guys don't need to be coaches and motivators because they play in a system that's built to succeed and the motivation is built-in.

Very well put...though I must question why we do not also have such a good built-in system  :-/.

This is a tough discussion to sort out...it's impossible to make the case that Hall has more talent than Washington.  That kid's a monster.  In terms of pure physical ability he is way ahead, and the NFL will take players like that because they can advance their mental play and mold that talent further.

Hall does a lot of interesting things with the ball.  Many of his great runs are a combination of intelligence and his good (but not great) physical ability.  I've seen him spin of a block and essentially block 2 people with one guy based on the timing.  Things like that are great, its not about heart or anything like that, just what's effective.

Problem for Hall is, MOST NFL backs do that as routinely as he does.  Comparing his draft status to Washington is kinda ridiculous, washinton is a 1st or 2nd rounder, Hall will go between 6 and 2 depending on his season, weight gain, and development.

Can Hall react faster than even the average NFL back to use his natural intelligence for running at the next level?  Rice seems to have his doubts, and so do I.  But if hall has a good season/combine, somebody's gonna take a chance on him.

We just don't know his draft status yet.  There's a reason he didnt go last year: he wanted to improve it.  Let's see if he does.  RB will be much thinner this year than last.

[Guest Vanilla Rice]

I'll tell you what though.  Although Wynn is an underclassmen, I bet he gets taken ahead of Hall whenever he comes out.  Have you ever seen Wynn?  He is the protypical NFL running back.  he's about 5-11, and 225 pounds.  Not to sound gay, but he has the big theighs and the big ass and the big legs.  That equals power.  he also has nice speed.  Under Urban Meyer you might see a good back.  I hear he is a little lazy, but he has talent.  He was a freakin Parade All American coming out of high school and actually started ahead of ciatrick Faison at Florida (Faison was also a Parade All American).  

getting back to the size thing in regards to Hall and Emmitt Smith.  As I mentioned before, Emitt still outweighed Hall by ten pounds and although he is short, he had a strong burst.  I also mentioned Ernest Graham.  Ernest Graham is only 5 foot 8.  And guess what position the Bucs had him play?  FULLBACK!  Why?  Although he was only 5-8, Ernest was VERY strong (he has a high squat) and has powerful legs.  He's built almos like Emmitt.  Hall is not built like Emmitt or Graham.  In other words, he is the same height as those two guys.  Probably has similar speed.  But he lacks the strength that those two guys have.  I know comparing Emitt to Ernest is also apples and oranges....but last I checked, Ernest is still in the league (with the Bucs).  

Again, I think too many of you don't think outside of the box.   It's good to be fans, but be realistic here.  I know you want to believe Andre is the best running back in the nation or the state.  But again, let's be realistic here.  That's almost like saying that Marquel was better than Danny Wuerfull.  And I know some of you probably think that!  If there is an argument I would make is that during Kawika's senior year, there was no other LB in the state better and same goes for J.R.'s senior year there was no other FS in the state better (although the year before Miami did have a 6-3, 230 pound freak of nature named Sean Taylor).  But to say Andre is the best RB in the state is an understatement.  I think you guys are relying to much on stats.  don't forget, that was against Conference USA defenses which aren't the strongest in the nation.  If you look at FSU, Washington may not have the yards as hall, but you also forget, he's sharing carries with Booker.  Also you have to look at FSU probably passed a little better than USF last year.

[CyberBull]

I'll tell you what though.  Although Wynn is an underclassmen, I bet he gets taken ahead of Hall whenever he comes out.  Have you ever seen Wynn?  He is the protypical NFL running back.  he's about 5-11, and 225 pounds.  Not to sound gay, but he has the big theighs and the big ass and the big legs.  That equals power.  he also has nice speed.  Under Urban Meyer you might see a good back.  I hear he is a little lazy, but he has talent.  He was a freakin Parade All American coming out of high school and actually started ahead of ciatrick Faison at Florida (Faison was also a Parade All American).  

getting back to the size thing in regards to Hall and Emmitt Smith.  As I mentioned before, Emitt still outweighed Hall by ten pounds and although he is short, he had a strong burst.  I also mentioned Ernest Graham.  Ernest Graham is only 5 foot 8.  And guess what position the Bucs had him play?  FULLBACK!  Why?  Although he was only 5-8, Ernest was VERY strong (he has a high squat) and has powerful legs.  He's built almos like Emmitt.  Hall is not built like Emmitt or Graham.  In other words, he is the same height as those two guys.  Probably has similar speed.  But he lacks the strength that those two guys have.  I know comparing Emitt to Ernest is also apples and oranges....but last I checked, Ernest is still in the league (with the Bucs).  

Again, I think too many of you don't think outside of the box.   It's good to be fans, but be realistic here.  I know you want to believe Andre is the best running back in the nation or the state.  But again, let's be realistic here.  That's almost like saying that Marquel was better than Danny Wuerfull.  And I know some of you probably think that!  If there is an argument I would make is that during Kawika's senior year, there was no other LB in the state better and same goes for J.R.'s senior year there was no other FS in the state better (although the year before Miami did have a 6-3, 230 pound freak of nature named Sean Taylor).  But to say Andre is the best RB in the state is an understatement.  I think you guys are relying to much on stats.  don't forget, that was against Conference USA defenses which aren't the strongest in the nation.  If you look at FSU, Washington may not have the yards as hall, but you also forget, he's sharing carries with Booker.  Also you have to look at FSU probably passed a little better than USF last year.

V_R: I think everyone gets 'it' and understands the difference between a great college player and a good pro.

However, as USF fans we show up on Saturdays to watch OUR players play for OUR school.  Andre Hall is a great player for OUR school. That is all that really matters. I don't see the point in belittling his skills and potential right before the biggest year in his career. Besides, there are countless examples of kids like Hall having good to great NFL careers despite not having ideal NFL size or speed. If NFL scouting was as easy as you suggest, there wouldn’t be so many busts in the NFL draft. It is an inexact science and much of it depends on being in the right system at the right time. For example look at Chester Taylor. He was a hell of college back from Toledo with similar size & speed ratio to Andre Hall. He was drafted in the 6th round. He recently signed a multi-million deal with Baltimore. In contrast look at some of the other higher profile running backs that were drafter that year. Taylor is getting paid, while some of those first day running backs are out of the league already. So who is too say that Hall won’t be a better pro than Washington etc?  FSU doesn’t exactly have a history of developing good pro backs or QBs despite consistently recruiting Top 5 classes on a national level. Just admit it, you don’t know …..so why knock the kid?

To me Marquel Blackwell was a great player for USF, as was Chad Barnhardt. Their lack of NFL careers SHOULD NOT diminish their contributions are how they are remembered.  So my point is, rather than go-on-and-on talking about what Hall can't do, why not spend more time talking about what he can do and what he means to this program.

[Guest Hitman]

Wong - Would you rank Davis as high as Kenyatta Jones for the best USF OL to date?  I definately think KJ was #1.  2-5 is a toss up but I'd put Beef in that mix before Davis.

[Guest PimpinD]

Hell no, K.J. is better than Panama as both a guard and a tackle.  Panama don't run no 4.9 like k.J. did at the combine.  I think K.J. had the fastest 40 time that year than any other lineman.  Beef is a better guard than panama, but as far as the pros go, Panama offers more upside.  Panama has two of the intangibles that the NFL looks for.....size and strength.  The way the NFL thinks is if you have the intangibles (size, strenght, speed), they will teach you football by shipping you off to NFL Europe or place you on the practice squad.  Beef is definately a better lineman than Panama.  Although Beef is a better college player than Panama, I think Panama will be the better pro player.  Panama is still learning the game (and English for that matter....ha ha).  he's only been in this country and playing football for like what?  Four years?  Beef is definately a better college player than Panama, but I think Panama has more upside to be a better pro player.  If Panama makes it, i could see him getting sent over to NFL Europe to develop.  But that's not a bad thing.  A lot of guys get sent over there to develop and come back studs.  Take La'Roi Glover for instance.  There was this one guy at Florida, Derrick Chambers, who was a defensive takle there but in the NFL he was an offensive guard and the Jags shipped him over to Europe to learn the position.  By the simple fact that K.J. has been a starting offensive lineman in the NFL, it is obvious that he is so far the best lineman to come out of USF.  The second best would be the SUIT!

[KeysBull]

i am pretty sure that intangibles mean qualities such as leadership, work ethic, etc.  Size and Speed are tangibles, because they can easily be measured.

[Guest Vanilla Rice]

To the NFL, the most important tangibles seem to be the measured things (height, weight, speed, strength, etc.).  Productivity may be tied with the measured things if not second.  Then after that, comes all the other qualities that they look for through those wunderlich tests, interviewing the player, coaches, second grade teacher, etc.  

[Guest Vanilla Rice]

Prime example of how the NFL counts the measurable intangibles over production:  Ronnie Brown was picked AHEAD in the draft over Cadillac Williams.  Brown wowed everyone with his 4.3 speed at 6-2, 230.  But it was Williams who got most of the carries and most of the yards and most of the starts at Auburn over Ronnie Brown.  Williams was more productive than brown in college, but Williams doesn't have the prototypical size in the NFL as a RB and Brown does.  I think I read that the average weight of an NFL running back of all the starters in the league comes to around to 220.