Start Bench

[WWMJD]

 

A 47% career completion percentage would disagree with this assessment.  

 

Again all I am concerned with at this point is what his recent history says and who is the right QB for the situation. Its clear that both players have some skills the other doesn't. If we need to pass the ball to win the game, and you truly think QF is better than SB, then all we can do is disagree.

 

 

You keep waving the "just the facts" flag, but you've ignored the fact that they are fairly close in passing stats over the window you selected, with Flowers having a huge edge running the ball. I don't think either of these guys are very good (as they stand now), but your own numbers don't bear out your position.

 

It's fine to hold an opinion but it just looks foolish to pretend like it's based on hard evidence.

Edited September 15, 2015 by WWMJD

[DELdaBull]

Apis see below

While I have done this in the past, with all the newer TBP'ers and many older I respect, I would like to clarify why I want to see Bench.

First off I don't care what Bench did in 2013, I want the QB that will put us in the best position to win NOW.

Lets look at Bench's last 5 games for all those claiming he is an INT machine:

Vs |CMP | ATT | YDS | CMP% | TD | INT | RAT

Cin 14 | 9 | 14 | 147 | 64.3 | 2 | 0 | 199.6

Hou 14 | 12 | 25 | 147 | 48.0 | 0 | 1 | 89.4

Mem 14 | 6 | 11 | 57 | 54.5 | 1 | 0 | 128.1

UCF 14 | 7 | 13 | 88 | 53.8 | 0 | 0 | 110.7

FAM 15 | 8 | 10 | 140 | 80.0 | 1 | 0 | 230.6

AVG CMP%: 60.12

TD/INT : 4/1

AVG QB Rating: 151.68

These numbers are without getting full first team reps. Even in the game where SB started he had to split reps with a hurt MW. Bench is a passer. Unlike BJ, Matt and Quinton, he needs to develop a rhythm and gel with the receivers b/c he is not going to scramble around and make a sandlot play. The timing and routes have to be there and that only happens with getting the reps in.

As far as his legs go, SB will not be able to extend plays like QF can, he is not as dynamic. I haven't seen a single person claim that. He will be sacked more than QF, but I would argue he will also have more completed passes and make throws he cannot atm. I would also rather him take a sack or throw it away then throw a pick. He is also not a stick in the mud either. He has the wheels to pick up a first down and TD and with the RB's we have THAT IS ALL WE NEED. We don't need the QB to be another RB in this system. It is far more important for the QB to be able to toss the rock and keep D's honest. We saw lots of two back option against FSU and I love that look with the talent we have for both QF and SB.

Now lets move onto the FAMU game where people are discrediting what SB did. Listen I am pulling for QF and I think he will continue to develop, hopefully into what we need. But lets be honest, SB can toss the rock better. The throws he made against FAMU where on point and QF hasn't shown anything to prove he can make those throws. You can say all you want about FAMU's D, it was gassed, they are no good etc etc but he put the ball on the money over the middle, down the sidelines, short and deep. He Executed the Play! He can make ALL the throws, and at this moment, IMO QF can't.

Finally, look at the numbers above. If we can get this kind of production from the QB we will go bowling for sure! The TD to INT ratio should end any notion that he is a turn over machine. Further that avg passer rating for the last 5 games would put SB currently in the top 40 QBs of 2015. Those of us asking to "SEE" SB I believe are fully justified. Bringing in SB sometime in the 3rd against FSU, was the right move in my opinion. It's not that QF played bad, he is just not that type of QB atm. He doesn't have the tools right now to sling the ball to bring us back when we are down. If anything can be said for SB its that he has proven to be able to come into a game in the 2nd half and do well.

Didn't read all of this. Just one thing stuck out.

4 TDs in 5 games. That is 9.6 for a season

Not going to win very many games with that.

[Triple B]

 

Apis see below

While I have done this in the past, with all the newer TBP'ers and many older I respect, I would like to clarify why I want to see Bench.

First off I don't care what Bench did in 2013, I want the QB that will put us in the best position to win NOW.

Lets look at Bench's last 5 games for all those claiming he is an INT machine:

Vs |CMP | ATT | YDS | CMP% | TD | INT | RAT

Cin 14 | 9 | 14 | 147 | 64.3 | 2 | 0 | 199.6

Hou 14 | 12 | 25 | 147 | 48.0 | 0 | 1 | 89.4

Mem 14 | 6 | 11 | 57 | 54.5 | 1 | 0 | 128.1

UCF 14 | 7 | 13 | 88 | 53.8 | 0 | 0 | 110.7

FAM 15 | 8 | 10 | 140 | 80.0 | 1 | 0 | 230.6

AVG CMP%: 60.12

TD/INT : 4/1

AVG QB Rating: 151.68

These numbers are without getting full first team reps. Even in the game where SB started he had to split reps with a hurt MW. Bench is a passer. Unlike BJ, Matt and Quinton, he needs to develop a rhythm and gel with the receivers b/c he is not going to scramble around and make a sandlot play. The timing and routes have to be there and that only happens with getting the reps in.

As far as his legs go, SB will not be able to extend plays like QF can, he is not as dynamic. I haven't seen a single person claim that. He will be sacked more than QF, but I would argue he will also have more completed passes and make throws he cannot atm. I would also rather him take a sack or throw it away then throw a pick. He is also not a stick in the mud either. He has the wheels to pick up a first down and TD and with the RB's we have THAT IS ALL WE NEED. We don't need the QB to be another RB in this system. It is far more important for the QB to be able to toss the rock and keep D's honest. We saw lots of two back option against FSU and I love that look with the talent we have for both QF and SB.

Now lets move onto the FAMU game where people are discrediting what SB did. Listen I am pulling for QF and I think he will continue to develop, hopefully into what we need. But lets be honest, SB can toss the rock better. The throws he made against FAMU where on point and QF hasn't shown anything to prove he can make those throws. You can say all you want about FAMU's D, it was gassed, they are no good etc etc but he put the ball on the money over the middle, down the sidelines, short and deep. He Executed the Play! He can make ALL the throws, and at this moment, IMO QF can't.

Finally, look at the numbers above. If we can get this kind of production from the QB we will go bowling for sure! The TD to INT ratio should end any notion that he is a turn over machine. Further that avg passer rating for the last 5 games would put SB currently in the top 40 QBs of 2015. Those of us asking to "SEE" SB I believe are fully justified. Bringing in SB sometime in the 3rd against FSU, was the right move in my opinion. It's not that QF played bad, he is just not that type of QB atm. He doesn't have the tools right now to sling the ball to bring us back when we are down. If anything can be said for SB its that he has proven to be able to come into a game in the 2nd half and do well.

Didn't read all of this. Just one thing stuck out.

4 TDs in 5 games. That is 9.6 for a season

Not going to win very many games with that.

 

 

You need to break that down by minutes or quarters since he didn't play any whole games, don't you?

[Bull-Hornz]

 

 

A 47% career completion percentage would disagree with this assessment.  

 

Again all I am concerned with at this point is what his recent history says and who is the right QB for the situation. Its clear that both players have some skills the other doesn't. If we need to pass the ball to win the game, and you truly think QF is better than SB, then all we can do is disagree.

 

 

You keep waving the "just the facts" flag, but you've ignored the fact that they are fairly close in passing stats over the window you selected, with Flowers having a huge edge running the ball. I don't think either of these guys are very good (as they stand now), but your own numbers don't bear out your position.

 

It's fine to hold an opinion but it just looks foolish to pretend like it's based on hard evidence.

 

 

Facts are facts. The fact is that was my response to criticism of SB being a turnover machine that cant cut it at QB. I will continue to wave the "flag of facts"  proudly. Apparently you do not like that and have resorted to calling someone else foolish...so be it. I will continue refuting factually incorrect assessments with facts.

 

Last three games for both players

 

QF

OPP RESULT CMP ATT YDS CMP% LNG TD INT RAT

@SMU W 14-13 6 15 105 40.0 34 0 0 98.8

FAMU W 51-3 12 16 141 75.0 45 2 1 177.8

FSU L 34-14 12 24 125 50.0 71 2 1 112.9

 

SB

Mem L 31-20 6 11 57 54.5 17 1 0 128.1

UCF L 16-0 7 13 88 53.8 27 0 0 110.7

FAMU W 51-3 8 10 140 80.0 62 1 0 230.6

 

QF

Avg CMP%: 55%

TD Ratio: 2/1

Avg RAT:  129.83

 

SB

Avg CMP%: 62.7% 

TD Ratio: 2/0

Avg RAT:  156.67 

[WWMJD]

 

 

 

A 47% career completion percentage would disagree with this assessment.  

 

Again all I am concerned with at this point is what his recent history says and who is the right QB for the situation. Its clear that both players have some skills the other doesn't. If we need to pass the ball to win the game, and you truly think QF is better than SB, then all we can do is disagree.

 

 

You keep waving the "just the facts" flag, but you've ignored the fact that they are fairly close in passing stats over the window you selected, with Flowers having a huge edge running the ball. I don't think either of these guys are very good (as they stand now), but your own numbers don't bear out your position.

 

It's fine to hold an opinion but it just looks foolish to pretend like it's based on hard evidence.

 

 

Facts are facts. The fact is that was my response to criticism of SB being a turnover machine that cant cut it at QB. I will continue to wave the "flag of facts"  proudly. Apparently you do not like that and have resorted to calling someone else foolish...so be it. I will continue refuting factually incorrect assessments with facts.

 

Last three games for both players

 

QF

OPP RESULT CMP ATT YDS CMP% LNG TD INT RAT

@SMU W 14-13 6 15 105 40.0 34 0 0 98.8

FAMU W 51-3 12 16 141 75.0 45 2 1 177.8

FSU L 34-14 12 24 125 50.0 71 2 1 112.9

 

SB

Mem L 31-20 6 11 57 54.5 17 1 0 128.1

UCF L 16-0 7 13 88 53.8 27 0 0 110.7

FAMU W 51-3 8 10 140 80.0 62 1 0 230.6

 

QF

Avg CMP%: 55%

TD Ratio: 2/1

Avg RAT:  129.83

 

SB

Avg CMP%: 62.7% 

TD Ratio: 2/0

Avg RAT:  156.67 

 

 

Just to clarify, I did not call you foolish. I said "it just looks foolish to pretend like it's based on hard evidence." I don't know you from some guy on the street so I wouldn't presume to know anything but the absurdity of your position.

 

Your moving statistical window is amusing (I'm reminded of all the "did you know that the stock market went [up/down] during [insert random period here]?!" articles on investing sites), but even over the last 3, the overall numbers don't bear out either one of these guys being a much better option than the other.

[Bull94]

 

 

 

A 47% career completion percentage would disagree with this assessment.  

 

Again all I am concerned with at this point is what his recent history says and who is the right QB for the situation. Its clear that both players have some skills the other doesn't. If we need to pass the ball to win the game, and you truly think QF is better than SB, then all we can do is disagree.

 

 

You keep waving the "just the facts" flag, but you've ignored the fact that they are fairly close in passing stats over the window you selected, with Flowers having a huge edge running the ball. I don't think either of these guys are very good (as they stand now), but your own numbers don't bear out your position.

 

It's fine to hold an opinion but it just looks foolish to pretend like it's based on hard evidence.

 

 

Facts are facts. The fact is that was my response to criticism of SB being a turnover machine that cant cut it at QB. I will continue to wave the "flag of facts"  proudly. Apparently you do not like that and have resorted to calling someone else foolish...so be it. I will continue refuting factually incorrect assessments with facts.

 

Last three games for both players

 

QF

OPP RESULT CMP ATT YDS CMP% LNG TD INT RAT

@SMU W 14-13 6 15 105 40.0 34 0 0 98.8

FAMU W 51-3 12 16 141 75.0 45 2 1 177.8

FSU L 34-14 12 24 125 50.0 71 2 1 112.9

 

SB

Mem L 31-20 6 11 57 54.5 17 1 0 128.1

UCF L 16-0 7 13 88 53.8 27 0 0 110.7

FAMU W 51-3 8 10 140 80.0 62 1 0 230.6

 

QF

Avg CMP%: 55%

TD Ratio: 2/1

Avg RAT:  129.83

 

SB

Avg CMP%: 62.7% 

TD Ratio: 2/0

Avg RAT:  156.67 

 

you forgot rushing stats

 

7 carries 9 yards and 1 TD for Bench 1.3 ypc

25 carries 134 yards and 1 TD for flowers 5.4 ypc

Edited September 15, 2015 by Bull94

[Bull-Hornz]

 

 

 

 

A 47% career completion percentage would disagree with this assessment.  

 

Again all I am concerned with at this point is what his recent history says and who is the right QB for the situation. Its clear that both players have some skills the other doesn't. If we need to pass the ball to win the game, and you truly think QF is better than SB, then all we can do is disagree.

 

 

You keep waving the "just the facts" flag, but you've ignored the fact that they are fairly close in passing stats over the window you selected, with Flowers having a huge edge running the ball. I don't think either of these guys are very good (as they stand now), but your own numbers don't bear out your position.

 

It's fine to hold an opinion but it just looks foolish to pretend like it's based on hard evidence.

 

 

Facts are facts. The fact is that was my response to criticism of SB being a turnover machine that cant cut it at QB. I will continue to wave the "flag of facts"  proudly. Apparently you do not like that and have resorted to calling someone else foolish...so be it. I will continue refuting factually incorrect assessments with facts.

 

Last three games for both players

 

QF

OPP RESULT CMP ATT YDS CMP% LNG TD INT RAT

@SMU W 14-13 6 15 105 40.0 34 0 0 98.8

FAMU W 51-3 12 16 141 75.0 45 2 1 177.8

FSU L 34-14 12 24 125 50.0 71 2 1 112.9

 

SB

Mem L 31-20 6 11 57 54.5 17 1 0 128.1

UCF L 16-0 7 13 88 53.8 27 0 0 110.7

FAMU W 51-3 8 10 140 80.0 62 1 0 230.6

 

QF

Avg CMP%: 55%

TD Ratio: 2/1

Avg RAT:  129.83

 

SB

Avg CMP%: 62.7% 

TD Ratio: 2/0

Avg RAT:  156.67 

 

you forgot rushing stats

 

7 carries 9 yards and 1 TD for Bench 1.3 ypc

25 carries 134 yards and 1 TD for flowers 5.4 ypc

 

Sure we can add those as well for completeness sake.

 

Go Bulls!

[snarling Bull]

A 47% career completion percentage would disagree with this assessment.

Again all I am concerned with at this point is what his recent history says and who is the right QB for the situation. Its clear that both players have some skills the other doesn't. If we need to pass the ball to win the game, and you truly think QF is better than SB, then all we can do is disagree.

You keep waving the "just the facts" flag, but you've ignored the fact that they are fairly close in passing stats over the window you selected, with Flowers having a huge edge running the ball. I don't think either of these guys are very good (as they stand now), but your own numbers don't bear out your position.

It's fine to hold an opinion but it just looks foolish to pretend like it's based on hard evidence.

Facts are facts. The fact is that was my response to criticism of SB being a turnover machine that cant cut it at QB. I will continue to wave the "flag of facts" proudly. Apparently you do not like that and have resorted to calling someone else foolish...so be it. I will continue refuting factually incorrect assessments with facts.

Last three games for both players

QF

OPP RESULT CMP ATT YDS CMP% LNG TD INT RAT

@SMU W 14-13 6 15 105 40.0 34 0 0 98.8

FAMU W 51-3 12 16 141 75.0 45 2 1 177.8

FSU L 34-14 12 24 125 50.0 71 2 1 112.9

SB

Mem L 31-20 6 11 57 54.5 17 1 0 128.1

UCF L 16-0 7 13 88 53.8 27 0 0 110.7

FAMU W 51-3 8 10 140 80.0 62 1 0 230.6

QF

Avg CMP%: 55%

TD Ratio: 2/1

Avg RAT: 129.83

SB

Avg CMP%: 62.7%

TD Ratio: 2/0

Avg RAT: 156.67

you forgot rushing stats

7 carries 9 yards and 1 TD for Bench 1.3 ypc

25 carries 134 yards and 1 TD for flowers 5.4 ypc

The rushing stats just tell me what many not wearing green and goggles say and that is that QF. Is a running back

[Bull94]

 

 

 

 

 

A 47% career completion percentage would disagree with this assessment.

Again all I am concerned with at this point is what his recent history says and who is the right QB for the situation. Its clear that both players have some skills the other doesn't. If we need to pass the ball to win the game, and you truly think QF is better than SB, then all we can do is disagree.

You keep waving the "just the facts" flag, but you've ignored the fact that they are fairly close in passing stats over the window you selected, with Flowers having a huge edge running the ball. I don't think either of these guys are very good (as they stand now), but your own numbers don't bear out your position.

It's fine to hold an opinion but it just looks foolish to pretend like it's based on hard evidence.

Facts are facts. The fact is that was my response to criticism of SB being a turnover machine that cant cut it at QB. I will continue to wave the "flag of facts" proudly. Apparently you do not like that and have resorted to calling someone else foolish...so be it. I will continue refuting factually incorrect assessments with facts.

Last three games for both players

QF

OPP RESULT CMP ATT YDS CMP% LNG TD INT RAT

@SMU W 14-13 6 15 105 40.0 34 0 0 98.8

FAMU W 51-3 12 16 141 75.0 45 2 1 177.8

FSU L 34-14 12 24 125 50.0 71 2 1 112.9

SB

Mem L 31-20 6 11 57 54.5 17 1 0 128.1

UCF L 16-0 7 13 88 53.8 27 0 0 110.7

FAMU W 51-3 8 10 140 80.0 62 1 0 230.6

QF

Avg CMP%: 55%

TD Ratio: 2/1

Avg RAT: 129.83

SB

Avg CMP%: 62.7%

TD Ratio: 2/0

Avg RAT: 156.67

you forgot rushing stats

7 carries 9 yards and 1 TD for Bench 1.3 ypc

25 carries 134 yards and 1 TD for flowers 5.4 ypc

The rushing stats just tell me what many not wearing green and goggles say and that is that QF. Is a running back

 

our top 3 QBs in our history all have over 1,000 yards rushing for their careers(2 of them over 2,000) .

[yakacack]

The above snarling bull post is true. A running back that throws the best **** lob ball I've ever seen to guys that may have been open 3-5 seconds before he decided to actually heave it at them!

Edited September 15, 2015 by yakacack