Start Bench

[Bull94]

It's irrelevant if Bench graduates.  This board has had freshman BJ > senior Grothe, Eveld > BJ, White greatest of all time > Bench, Bench > White, Bench >QF, ineligible Woulard > everyone

Every option is better than the option that is playing.

I still remember the yahoos that wanted Matt Floyd to start over BJ Daniels.

[Bull-Hornz]

 

Unfortunately I can't say the same...at least in this thread I have mostly seen people asking to see Bench making mostly logical arguements while the QF as starter supporters have been making excuses...

Again I am not against QF playing or even starting next game, I am just not being dogmatic about it. It's not one or the other, one has skill set the other doesn't. Just play the QB that is best suited for us to win. If MD has a poor secondary, then we should be all calling for SB so we can take advantage of that matchup.

QF has started 3 games. we have won 2 of them. the one loss was to a top ten team on the road. no one is arguing he is a heisman contender.

 

no one is dogmatic. Bench has appeared in 14 games for us. He is 3-11. The wins were FAMU, Western Carolina (1-1 for 10 yards) and Cincy (1-1 for 7 yards). last year he would have ranked #106 in the country for passer ranking.

 

you guys act like we have joe montana on the bench.

 

I have said that Bench should be put into the game if we are down by more than 2 TDs in the 4th quarter otherwise i believe flowers gives us a better chance. he doesn't get sacked as much , he takes care of the ball better, and is a better runner.

 

LOL...I am not sure you watched last season at all but if it were up to QF, the only win QF would have would be against FAMU. Now that IS what I call using number to support a foregone conclusion.

 

Also I believe most of us are not advocating QF not play just be used in the right situations. Conversely the other side is advocating SB not play at all...which seems more reasonable? I wonder....

[Bull94]

 

 

Unfortunately I can't say the same...at least in this thread I have mostly seen people asking to see Bench making mostly logical arguements while the QF as starter supporters have been making excuses...

Again I am not against QF playing or even starting next game, I am just not being dogmatic about it. It's not one or the other, one has skill set the other doesn't. Just play the QB that is best suited for us to win. If MD has a poor secondary, then we should be all calling for SB so we can take advantage of that matchup.

QF has started 3 games. we have won 2 of them. the one loss was to a top ten team on the road. no one is arguing he is a heisman contender.

 

no one is dogmatic. Bench has appeared in 14 games for us. He is 3-11. The wins were FAMU, Western Carolina (1-1 for 10 yards) and Cincy (1-1 for 7 yards). last year he would have ranked #106 in the country for passer ranking.

 

you guys act like we have joe montana on the bench.

 

I have said that Bench should be put into the game if we are down by more than 2 TDs in the 4th quarter otherwise i believe flowers gives us a better chance. he doesn't get sacked as much , he takes care of the ball better, and is a better runner.

 

LOL...I am not sure you watched last season at all but if it were up to QF, the only win QF would have would be against FAMU. Now that IS what I call using number to support a foregone conclusion.

 

Also I believe most of us are not advocating QF not play just be used in the right situations. Conversely the other side is advocating SB not play at all...which seems more reasonable? I wonder....

 

Who has said that Bench shouldn't play? He should if we are forced into a passing situation dictated by game flow. otherwise it should be Flowers.

 

Those stats you want to look at for Bench were in garbage time. His only 2 good games were Cincy and maybe memphis. They came in the 4th quarter when we were down 27-3 against Cincy and 31-13 against memphis. 2 of those 3 TDs were the last drive of the game and were meaningless.

[WWMJD]

Lets look at Bench's last 5 games for all those claiming he is an INT machine:

Vs |CMP | ATT | YDS | CMP% | TD | INT | RAT

Cin 14 | 9 | 14 | 147 | 64.3 | 2 | 0 | 199.6

Hou 14 | 12 | 25 | 147 | 48.0 | 0 | 1 | 89.4

Mem 14 | 6 | 11 | 57 | 54.5 | 1 | 0 | 128.1

UCF 14 | 7 | 13 | 88 | 53.8 | 0 | 0 | 110.7

FAM 15 | 8 | 10 | 140 | 80.0 | 1 | 0 | 230.6

AVG CMP%: 60.12

TD/INT : 4/1

AVG QB Rating: 151.68

These numbers are without getting full first team reps. Even in the game where SB started he had to split reps with a hurt MW. Bench is a passer. Unlike BJ, Matt and Quinton, he needs to develop a rhythm and gel with the receivers b/c he is not going to scramble around and make a sandlot play. The timing and routes have to be there and that only happens with getting the reps in.

 

 

I agree that using a 5-game subset, a good portion from garbage time, doesn't lead to a great comparison.

 

But you need to at least be honest in your comparison and compare apples-to-apples:

• In the last 5 games in which he has played, Flowers has had a 55% completion pct, and 4 TDs to 2 INTs.
• He has 29 rushes averaging 4.65 yds per rush.
• (Bench has 15 rushes for an average of -.25 yds per rush in his last 5.)

Edited September 15, 2015 by WWMJD

[Bull94]

 

 

Unfortunately I can't say the same...at least in this thread I have mostly seen people asking to see Bench making mostly logical arguements while the QF as starter supporters have been making excuses...

Again I am not against QF playing or even starting next game, I am just not being dogmatic about it. It's not one or the other, one has skill set the other doesn't. Just play the QB that is best suited for us to win. If MD has a poor secondary, then we should be all calling for SB so we can take advantage of that matchup.

QF has started 3 games. we have won 2 of them. the one loss was to a top ten team on the road. no one is arguing he is a heisman contender.

 

no one is dogmatic. Bench has appeared in 14 games for us. He is 3-11. The wins were FAMU, Western Carolina (1-1 for 10 yards) and Cincy (1-1 for 7 yards). last year he would have ranked #106 in the country for passer ranking.

 

you guys act like we have joe montana on the bench.

 

I have said that Bench should be put into the game if we are down by more than 2 TDs in the 4th quarter otherwise i believe flowers gives us a better chance. he doesn't get sacked as much , he takes care of the ball better, and is a better runner.

 

LOL...I am not sure you watched last season at all but if it were up to QF, the only win QF would have would be against FAMU. Now that IS what I call using number to support a foregone conclusion.

 

Also I believe most of us are not advocating QF not play just be used in the right situations. Conversely the other side is advocating SB not play at all...which seems more reasonable? I wonder....

 

that was my point. to show you how ridiculous it is to just show Bench's last 5 games. 2 of which he was rated lower than Flowers was against FSU, 2 that were blowout losses in the 4th quarter with meaningless stats, and 1 against FAMU.

[Bull-Hornz]

 

 

 

Unfortunately I can't say the same...at least in this thread I have mostly seen people asking to see Bench making mostly logical arguements while the QF as starter supporters have been making excuses...

Again I am not against QF playing or even starting next game, I am just not being dogmatic about it. It's not one or the other, one has skill set the other doesn't. Just play the QB that is best suited for us to win. If MD has a poor secondary, then we should be all calling for SB so we can take advantage of that matchup.

QF has started 3 games. we have won 2 of them. the one loss was to a top ten team on the road. no one is arguing he is a heisman contender.

 

no one is dogmatic. Bench has appeared in 14 games for us. He is 3-11. The wins were FAMU, Western Carolina (1-1 for 10 yards) and Cincy (1-1 for 7 yards). last year he would have ranked #106 in the country for passer ranking.

 

you guys act like we have joe montana on the bench.

 

I have said that Bench should be put into the game if we are down by more than 2 TDs in the 4th quarter otherwise i believe flowers gives us a better chance. he doesn't get sacked as much , he takes care of the ball better, and is a better runner.

 

LOL...I am not sure you watched last season at all but if it were up to QF, the only win QF would have would be against FAMU. Now that IS what I call using number to support a foregone conclusion.

 

Also I believe most of us are not advocating QF not play just be used in the right situations. Conversely the other side is advocating SB not play at all...which seems more reasonable? I wonder....

 

Who has said that Bench shouldn't play? He should if we are forced into a passing situation dictated by game flow. otherwise it should be Flowers.

 

Those stats you want to look at for Bench were in garbage time. His only 2 good games were Cincy and maybe memphis. They came in the 4th quarter when we were down 27-3 against Cincy and 31-13 against memphis. 2 of those 3 TDs were the last drive of the game and were meaningless.

 

 

Garbage Time:

Listen...I am not arguing whether or not those came against good teams, bad teams, "non-garbage" or garbage time etc etc...I am saying he has tools that QF does not, which is being able to execute most throws we need from a QB which is an argument to use SB and are not meaningless. 

 

Using the right QB at the right time:

Welcome to the fray 

[Bull-Hornz]

 

Lets look at Bench's last 5 games for all those claiming he is an INT machine:

Vs |CMP | ATT | YDS | CMP% | TD | INT | RAT

Cin 14 | 9 | 14 | 147 | 64.3 | 2 | 0 | 199.6

Hou 14 | 12 | 25 | 147 | 48.0 | 0 | 1 | 89.4

Mem 14 | 6 | 11 | 57 | 54.5 | 1 | 0 | 128.1

UCF 14 | 7 | 13 | 88 | 53.8 | 0 | 0 | 110.7

FAM 15 | 8 | 10 | 140 | 80.0 | 1 | 0 | 230.6

AVG CMP%: 60.12

TD/INT : 4/1

AVG QB Rating: 151.68

These numbers are without getting full first team reps. Even in the game where SB started he had to split reps with a hurt MW. Bench is a passer. Unlike BJ, Matt and Quinton, he needs to develop a rhythm and gel with the receivers b/c he is not going to scramble around and make a sandlot play. The timing and routes have to be there and that only happens with getting the reps in.

 

 

I agree that using a 5-game subset, a good portion from garbage time, doesn't lead to a great comparison.

 

But you need to at least be honest in your comparison and compare apples-to-apples:

• In the last 5 games in which he has played, Flowers has had a 55% competion pct, and 4 TDs to 2 INTs.
• He has 29 rushes averaging 21.5 yds per rush.
• (Bench has 15 rushes for an average of -.25 yds per rush in his last 5.)

 

Lol would you prefer I use the last three games? Then I will really get hammered for being skewed. 

 

IMO I am being objective...I am not saying anything more than those are his numbers and he is able to execute in game situations... those arguing against are adding everything else that is subjective. If I were to go down that road, I would argue that the entire game against FAMU was garbage time...lol. Then all you really have are terrible numbers for QF...but that is not my style man

[WWMJD]

 

 

Lets look at Bench's last 5 games for all those claiming he is an INT machine:

Vs |CMP | ATT | YDS | CMP% | TD | INT | RAT

Cin 14 | 9 | 14 | 147 | 64.3 | 2 | 0 | 199.6

Hou 14 | 12 | 25 | 147 | 48.0 | 0 | 1 | 89.4

Mem 14 | 6 | 11 | 57 | 54.5 | 1 | 0 | 128.1

UCF 14 | 7 | 13 | 88 | 53.8 | 0 | 0 | 110.7

FAM 15 | 8 | 10 | 140 | 80.0 | 1 | 0 | 230.6

AVG CMP%: 60.12

TD/INT : 4/1

AVG QB Rating: 151.68

These numbers are without getting full first team reps. Even in the game where SB started he had to split reps with a hurt MW. Bench is a passer. Unlike BJ, Matt and Quinton, he needs to develop a rhythm and gel with the receivers b/c he is not going to scramble around and make a sandlot play. The timing and routes have to be there and that only happens with getting the reps in.

 

 

I agree that using a 5-game subset, a good portion from garbage time, doesn't lead to a great comparison.

 

But you need to at least be honest in your comparison and compare apples-to-apples:

• In the last 5 games in which he has played, Flowers has had a 55% competion pct, and 4 TDs to 2 INTs.
• He has 29 rushes averaging 21.5 yds per rush.
• (Bench has 15 rushes for an average of -.25 yds per rush in his last 5.)

 

Lol would you prefer I use the last three games? Then I will really get hammered for being skewed. 

 

IMO I am being objective...I am not saying anything more than those are his numbers and he is able to execute in game situations... those arguing against are adding everything else that is subjective. If I were to go down that road, I would argue that the entire game against FAMU was garbage time...lol. Then all you really have are terrible numbers for QF...but that is not my style man

 

 

Personally, I don't think either player has a good enough sample size to make start-sit decisions based on the number, but it's your own sample set. Objectively, by your own numbers and sample size, Bench has a slight edge in passing numbers, Flowers has a drastic rushing advantage.

[JTrue]

I've slowly moved into the "whatever" camp. We're a 5-7 win team this year, depending on how well the staff utilizes the players' skills. It's CWT's job on the line with this offense and season. If he thinks QF gives him the best chance to remain employed and he can get the best out of him, neat. If he thinks its Bench, cool.

Edited September 15, 2015 by JTrue

[Bull Dozer]

You ride with Flowers until he starts to fail and put the team in bad spots early in games. Until then Bench can wait for that moment, a Flowers injury, or garbage time. In order to see what you have in Flowers you have to let the kid play. Bench had the past 3 seasons to develop and separate from the pack at QB and has failed to do so. We know what we have Bench after 3 years. At this point if the two are close you have to roll with Flowers for the long time good of the program. You want Flowers to be as developed as possible heading into this spring's QB competition.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Bull Dozer